snippets
Remember my post on roadtrips? To kick off the summer, This American Life did a show called Roadtrip! It's definitely worth your listen.
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I've been gone a couple of Sundays over the past few weeks. In my absence, more than qualified folks have stepped in for me on Sundays to teach and preach. This past week, JTB preached on Trinity Sunday. Check her sermon out here. And, go take a look at what Casey said over at her blog concerning her experience at Christ's Church for Brooklyn. I'm very fortunate to be surrounded by such strong people of faith.
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Did you happen to catch Obama, Clinton and Edwards on CNN last night? Me neither as I don't have cable but I did catch bits of it via youtube. Sojo.net hosted the event in which they invited these three presidential candidates to speak about faith, values and poverty. Here's a sample:
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I've been gone a couple of Sundays over the past few weeks. In my absence, more than qualified folks have stepped in for me on Sundays to teach and preach. This past week, JTB preached on Trinity Sunday. Check her sermon out here. And, go take a look at what Casey said over at her blog concerning her experience at Christ's Church for Brooklyn. I'm very fortunate to be surrounded by such strong people of faith.
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Did you happen to catch Obama, Clinton and Edwards on CNN last night? Me neither as I don't have cable but I did catch bits of it via youtube. Sojo.net hosted the event in which they invited these three presidential candidates to speak about faith, values and poverty. Here's a sample:
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posted by jch at
4:23 PM
13 Comments:
That was cool, I been subscribing from months love it.
oh I was going to tell you check out the one on the Ten Commandments a few weeks back it was good.
Clinton's repeated use of phrases these days about some of us "giving up" something so that we will be on "common ground" reek of communism's "idealogy". For me to voluntarily give up for another based on my personal beliefs is one thing. To make it governing law is quite another.
No, thanks.
If she wants to lead by example, I might hear her better.
I haven't watched the clips yet, but the above is standard liberal political philosophy, springing from a time (in Britain) when religious ideologies in the political sphere were so divisive that violence was the constant result. The solution was to make religion private, not public, and govern in a way that was based on the common ground between groups.
I am, however, also suspicious of this solution. Jeff Stout's model of democratic exchange where all forms of reasoning, including religious, are valid in the public square seems much more realistic. People may perhaps be able to temporarily set aside opinions, beliefs, etc., in order to play by the rules and not mention something out of bounds, but they do not "give them up" in any kind of real or permanent sense, and those convictions and beliefs still inform whatever opinions they do express in the public square. This means that at some point there may be people with opinions with a rationale ofa type not allowed in public discourse, rendering them apparently irrational although not in reality...and this is stupid.
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Throwing out a word like "communism" to undercut Hillary's argument seems hollow and trite. I think making a personal decision to write a check to UNICEF or your local congregation isn't anything that will or should be mandated by law but those things are what we do when we are compelled by our faith or our sense of charity (even though it's encouraged by law because we can get a tax break for giving to our churches and other non-profits).
I believe Hillary's point, taken from her words and not filtered through talk radio, would be that in order to fix big problems in this country like health care, education, energy, the war on terror, etc...the status quo is will not work. On this we can all agree...right? So in order for people, institutions, and corporations to change the status quo, they are going to have to alter their behavior. Perhaps even 'give' a little.
When I send in my quarterly tax payments I pay the exact amount and not a penny more. If part of changing the status quo means I need to pay more taxes then I am going to have to be compelled to do so by law regardless of how spiritually compelled I feel that universal health care for children is a good and Biblical thing.
That's me as an individual who is a believer in Christ. Can you imagine how reluctant companies and bureaucracies are to do the same thing? They must be equally compelled by law as well.
Hillary is a competent woman and doesn't need me sticking up for her, but lets not play into empty rhetoric thats good at getting cheers from the crowd, but poor at addressing the substance of her or others policy and arguments.
Besides, isn't Jesus a communist, or is it a socialist...I get confused?
The only observation I'd make about the program on CNN is that Edwards, to me, seemed the most comfortable and genuine of the three. I know Sen. Clinton stated that is wasn't comfortable/easy for her to discuss her faith, and I can respect that.
But being totally judgmental, Edwards is able to come off like he would have given a lot of the same answers (whether I liked them or not) if I asked him over a cup of coffee instead in a televised forum. I think Sen. Clinton just came off stilted.
Obama -- I need to go back and watch again. I didn't have a strong reaction one way or the other.
J-wild...yes, yes, and yes.
I know that they are candidates but can we just listen for once without thinking about who will win...who will I vote for...who do I not like for political reasons? Listen to their thoughts about the way of Jesus. We have listened for too many years in a very narrow way about the way of Jesus...open your hearts, open your minds and sometimes yes, it calls for us to open our pocketbooks for those less fortunate.
Have you wondered why the Dems "got religion" all of a sudden? Why they, up until recently, were embarrassed to talk about their faith? Why they always made fun of conservative christians? Politics, my friends. They put their finger up to the wind and found that some people care about such things as faith and values. Incidentally, Hillary never once mentioned what her faith was in. She didn't mention God once.
"Have you wondered why the Dems "got religion" all of a sudden?"
Has anyone wondered why the GOP "cornered the market" on religion a long time ago???
Politics, friends.
J-Wild no, no and NO!
Do yourself a favor and try real hard to differentiate between government actions and individual actions. This is hard for liberals, but it could help.
Jesus was neither a socialist or a communist. Socialism is born from envy. One of the cornerstones of communism is having a GODless state. Either assumption is just, well, dumb. Hillary is incompetent and Does need you to stick up for her, but since she hasn't a prayer anyway I would encourage you to stick up for someone else...
JTB, the GOP, while struggling with many things moral, believes it possible to legislate morality. The left does not, in my opinion.
Zeb, I believe I did differentiate. The government shouldn't mandate that we give of our time or resources to charitable organizations. But government, particularly our system, does have a responsibility to provide safety, security, and opportunity for it's people. Therefore the government compels us and corporations to give our resources so this can be accomplished.
I was being sarcastic about Jesus and trying to infer that some of Jesus teachings, taken out of context, could be construed to be promoting a socialist or communist ideology. Jesus isn't a communist, socialist, liberal, conservative, capitalist, or anything else. He is beyond any sort of ideological label that we could come up with to stamp on Him. Besides of course "Prince of Peace" which probably would go over as well these days as it did 2,000 years ago.
I bet Joe loved to hear you insinuate that I am a liberal. It is intellectually disingenuous to say that a person such as Hillary is just ignorant. The same has been done with Bush for almost seven years, and that too is an unfair and plain lazy. Perhaps her policy ideas are misguided or not good for the country....great tear those up all day long. But if you don't want Hillary to be President, you better take her seriously because she has all the tools, experience, and resources to close the deal.
Finally, it's not that Dems "got religion" all of a sudden, it's that religious people are starting to become concerned with more than just two issues. And the Dems characterize poverty, immigration, and health care as moral and spiritual issues...which they are. The Republicans aren't able to talk about those issues from that frame work which is unfortunate and a big weakness in the party. The church is no longer available for Republican conscription on just two issues.
all i know is that edwards ticks me off. did you see his smirk when he mentioned the folks in N.C.?? kind of a "hey, looks what i did. i'm AWESOME. vote for me." such a facade. such a cookie cutter answer too.
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