Have you heard of the new book, My Freshman Year? Prof. Rebekah Nathan felt quite a distance between herself and her students so she enrolled as a student and lived life as a freshman. And as she did so she studied the lives of undergraduates focusing on the students’ academic lives. She came to a startling conclusion. According to the Newsweek blurb she saw “how profs’ office hours often conflicted with her other classes. Deciding which reading assignments to skip was a necessary survival tactic. She pulled mostly B’s. Now that she’s teaching again, she’s cut her students required reading by 20 percent. She now knows many students chose her class only because they needed a course at noon on Tuesdays to fit their schedules. And today, when she sees a student eating in a lecture, she knows it may be because it’s the only time he can.”
My freshman year I attended Texas A&M and did something my other sisters didn’t do: I made the Dean’s List. The Dean’s List for Academic Probation, that is.
According to Prof. Nathan, we should cut freshmen some slack. So Mom and Dad, I’m awaiting an apology for giving me such a hard time after that first semester! (Kidding, Mom and Dad. Thanks for your patience.)
Are we asking too much from our undergraduates or has our work ethic shifted so significantly that our undergraduates don't know how to work hard? Or both? Bueller? Anyone? Bueller?
My freshman year I attended Texas A&M and did something my other sisters didn’t do: I made the Dean’s List. The Dean’s List for Academic Probation, that is.
According to Prof. Nathan, we should cut freshmen some slack. So Mom and Dad, I’m awaiting an apology for giving me such a hard time after that first semester! (Kidding, Mom and Dad. Thanks for your patience.)
Are we asking too much from our undergraduates or has our work ethic shifted so significantly that our undergraduates don't know how to work hard? Or both? Bueller? Anyone? Bueller?
posted by jch at
1:17 PM
20 Comments:
I thought I was the only one who did the Bueller joke.
I think the same could apply to Pre-K on up. Have you heard how much homework second graders have these days? I don't know what the answer is, but when I was in second grade, I went home and played after school! And I didn't turn out too bad. Graduated 8th in my high school class and made the dean's list every semester of college. (And I must say, my college experience may have been easier at the time too.) And what about so many extracurriculars? When do kids have time to be kids and when do college kids have time to enjoy life. No wonder church/spiritual life often gets the boot during those critical years.
Wow, you must have hit a sensitive spot with me! :-) I just worry about all these things for my two little boys.
Bueller here...
Glad to see I wasn't the only on Texas A&M's Dean's List... for probation! :-) I think the difference between you & I Joe is that I STAYED on that list for 2 full years. I thank God that the Dean of the Geography Department showed mercy to me & let me stay... I'm happy to say I finished, in four years... with a 2.0 and go! ha ha
My 1st grader had homework the second day of school... and he had homework every day as a Kindergartener. However, it is "early readers" and "math in a minute" that all takes less than 10 minutes to do, and he doesn't seem to mind.
I'm intrested in reading the prof's new book...
Thanks for the insight.
Prayin' for Ira
Marcie Muñoz
My thoughts: We are child abusers.
"We" start pressuring our children before they enter preschool presenting, usually subconsciously, a level of achievement that dooms them to failure or fear of failure. "Scholarship" is a word that is frequently heard among 8 year olds. Perfection is an unachievable goal, yet, we silently ask for it. We are addicted to extracurricular activities. We don't know how to draw boundaries for our children. How can we expect them to draw boundaries for themselves?
And we wonder why teens become addicts, self-cutters (anger turned inward), and commit suicide. Few things are more sad than the number of teens in stress centers these days.
We, as parents, are responsible for their emotional and mental well-being, as well as their educational and academic well-being. Give me an emotionally and mentally well child over an exhausted and depressed dean's list student any day.
Stepping off my soapbox now...
Well, I think we wandered off from the original idea, but clearly this is an issue that trickles down all through the school years. I've gotta confess though, that while I too see teachers that are excessive in their demands, or "teach to the test," I worry that we set expectations to low. Too low for our schools that is, not the kids.
Maybe I'm only saying that because I'm in the south, where our schools generally suck (maybe a little harsh, but true.) But, generally speaking, I'd like to see this type of conversation in the school districts. How can we provide a more solid educational foundation - without throwing the entire burden onto the kids.
Anyway... I'm looking forward to picking up the book. Thanks for the post - always anxious to hear about you guys, and especially Ira, but your other thoughts are always stimulating...
Yes, you can have e-friends!They are some of God's most precious blessings because they are total surprises. Glimpses of Heaven and the Kingdom that delight you with their love, wisdom, and support when you think there is none to be found in the universe. Since they are so totally unexpected, you realize how very gracious God is and how much He seeks to remind you that He is never far from you.
Sorry, I know I am a couple of days off (could have easily been on the Dean's probation list, well, actually, I was)
I would have to disagree with the idea that expectations are too low on schools right now. Right now teachers are expected to teach students not only the academic skills they need (and the skills that are expected to be taught are often higher level skills than ones that many of were expected to learn in school). On top of that, many parents expect that the teachers will do this without assigning too much homework - because their children have too many extracurricular activities to do homework.
Schools are also expected to teach students how to behave - and often have to defend themselves against complaints from parents who are angry that their children have received consequences.
The tests that children need to pass - at least the tests in Texas, have become increasingly difficult to pass. These tests do actually test students on the curriculum that is being studied. Testing is a complex subject - as a school counselor and in charge of testing, it is certainly not my favorite thing - however, there is a need to know if students are learning the skills they need to move up to the next grade level.
Most teachers and school administrators and school staff all work many more hours than they are paid for to try to provide a good, solid education for children. They work against many odds - they work with children who may not come from families who put an emphasis on education, they work with low-income families where the parents may work too many jobs to be able to be at home to help the child with homework, they work with higher income families with parents who may just be too busy to help their children with school, they work with children who have parents who don't believe they should receive consequences. And, there are constantly new expectations being put on teachers and on schools by the state and federal government. To say that teaching is a difficult job with enormous pressures is an understatement.
Sorry to be so off subject, Joe, but I couldn't keep quiet.
Kaley Ihfe
Sounds like a book I would be interested in - I remember being totally overwhelmed as a freshman and actually all through college, and the idea of a prof going to that length to understand freshman life is refreshing! I went to Kenya for a semester of my junior year, and for the first time realized that there was nothing "wrong" with me for being so overwhelmed by the utter chaos of college life. In that very different culture and different academic setting, I found a pace and a way to deal with life that felt really right. Granted, there were Kenyan students who spent their lives in the library and completely overcommitted themselves like I had been doing in my home culture... but for some reason I felt like the pressure was "off" a little for me while I was there.
I have a lot more questions than answers when it comes to our education system. It's not hard to get people to agree that there are a lot of things that aren't working well right now. Very hard to get people to agree on what would constitute workable change. Thanks for the book idea.
Jen Johnson
The school counselor, Kaley, really hit the "nail on the head" with her comments. As a retired teacher of 36 yrs, I couldn't have said it better myself! You parents just hang in there with your young ones. It's not likely to get any better with the homework and testing stress. When Jay Leno goes on the street with his simple questions to those he stops, I think, "Good grief! Did they sleep all through school?" It's absolutely ridiculous the things people don't know that they should know. Lack of attention and little studying are big problems. Kids today expect you to entertain them like the TV, video games, etc. Some parents have poor parenting skills, also...but I better not touch that one! However, we hear more about those who don't test well & have low scores, but there are more kids out there who do try really hard to do well on the tests, and enjoy learning. We don't seem to hear as much about them!
Ira looks like he wants to talk to his momma. I especially loved the picture with him and Laura...so special. Go Viagra! Help get sweet Ira where he needs to be, where he can get rid of some of those contraptions he has to wear, dear Lord. That can't be comfortable. Help those sweet smiles come more frequently. Help the doctors & nurses who tend to him, and whom we are so thankful for, know just what to do to continue their fantastic care. We know You hear us, Lord. Thank You for all You have done for Ira. In Your time, not ours, help us be patient for total healing. In His Name, Amen.
Love you all,
Weedon
I am a Texas middle school principal and I have way too many thoughts regarding our educational system to share at this time....however, I'm at my desk and can watch my 7th and 8th grade football teams working out on the practice field. There are 8 parents out on the street watching their sons practice at this time. I wish any one of them would care enough about their math or reading class to come into the classroom and watch those "practices."
Mom/Gram/Glo
Have you ever heard this fact of life?
The "A" students usually end up being teachers.
The "B" students usually end up working for the "C" students.
(HA! HA!) I'd rather have a successful "C" student in charge than a neurotic "A" Dean's list person.
I'm guessing you didn't make A's
I understand the impulse to defend the school system, particularly if you're a teacher, counselor, or principal. However, you're working with the same parents as the rest of the nation.
Here are a couple of stats from the TX comptroller's office:
Texas ranks 50th in high school graduation rates.
Texas ranks 48th in SAT scores.
Clearly the school's must bear some responsibility. The problem isn't simply uninvolved parents - although I'd grant that that is also an epidemic. Our schools simply don't teach our children very well. What's especially offensive is the number of parents that get upset by football stats or whether or not there is prayer time, instead of whether or not their kids are getting strong academics. So yes, maybe parents are also to blame - they should be a lot more upset by the minimalist education that their kids are gettting.
Sorry to rant. The topic touches a nerve with me... as much as I hate the idea of home schooling or elitist private schools, sending a kid off to class in Mississippi or Texas seems almost... well, just not good.
Of course there are exceptions everywhere and this isn't a blanket indictment. But there is a serious problem in many states.
The book sounds intriguing. I'm not sure how tough it is for freshmen, because those were the best academic semesters of college for me. However, there were a lot of transitions and it added a lot of stress and sickness that year. Oh, and because I'm such an elitest snob when it comes to Texans, I would just like to add my own state's stats:
Iowa ranks 2nd in the nation for SAT scores.
Iowa ranks 5th in high school graduation rates.
I-o-what?????
Since you are soooo educated, Miss Iowa, perhaps you realize that you have a redundancy in your prose. See if you can, in all of your knowledge and ego, actually find it.
And the person who said they wouldn't send their kid to school in Missississippi or Texas, might want to go back to school himself. You mispunctuated "school's". There is no ownership, merely a plurality. You should have dropped the apostrophe altogether.
But what do I know? I was educated in TEXAS!
I get really upset when people who are not from Texas, and have never gone to school there, act like they know all about the Texas education system. Just because you caught the late showing of "Friday Night Lights", does not make you an expert on how Texas schools work.
I taught school (in Texas) for four years and take serious offense to the notion that my curriculim was in some way inferior or watered-down.
I also have some friends from Mississippi who would not appreciate your commentary. (Particularly since they are currently working on their Doctorate degrees.)
Speaking of Doctorates, my husband is currently pursuing his. According to you, it must be a MIRACLE that he ever could do such a thing since he went to the Texas public school Abilene High (gasp!) , which had the highest dropout rate his Senior year (oh, those statistics!), and was on the football team ( double gasp!) and was not particularly driven in high school. I guess the Virgin Mary will appear on his diploma when he is done!
I place a high value on education, but I will say this: I will take polite, nice, caring people over the super-educated any day. When I am in grief or dying, all the knowledge in the world will not be a comfort. I believe the ultimate goal is not the education of our children, but the salvation of their souls. Let us pour into them the Word of God, and pray over them the annointing of the Spirit. For in that learning comes a force that the wisdom of man cannot calculate and the syntax of words cannot simplify.
Karise
P.S. Did you notice that I did not post anonymously? That's because Texans aren't scared. Remember the Alamo!
Now I have to have a good laugh at myself! Did you see Mississippi???? That is too funny! I got excited and punched "publish" instead of "preview". That's what I get for pointing out the mistakes of others!!!
Karise!
Well, it's starting to look like there may be too many of us anonymous folk to keep everyone straight... and Karise, while a first name helps keep the voices straight, let's face it - you are still totally anonymous, not that it matters. Sorry for any grammatical slips, to be honest I just jotted off a comment the way I'd write an e-mail to a friend. Maybe I should be more careful, but this is a cozy little place where it's easy to feel comfortable - thanks for that Joe.
Now, I doubt that anyone here would argue that of course it is of foremost importance that we raise up our children in the ways of the Lord. I too want my kids to know the love of Christ, and to love God's creation with the devotion and compassion that caused him to send his one and only son. That is something that is much more important to me than grades - or anything else for that matter.
However, this was a thread that looked at the academic burdens that we place on our children, and the intellectual expectations that we have of them and their schools. High academic expectations are not incompatible with a strong spiritual and moral upbringing - and it doesn't even matter what your position is on religion in schools.
I don't think that I have ever heard a convincing argument that the schools in many southern states - Texas included - offer the best education possible. I'm not even speaking in a hypothetical, idealistic sense. Those schools simply fail to live up to the example set by states that have made education a priority.
Of course someone can still go on to success, and Ph.D programs. The question is, have our schools provided the best foundation for that success. Adequate just doesn't seem good enough to me.
I apologize if you took my comment as a personal slight. I am an adament supporter of public schools, and our teachers. You may in fact be an amazing educator. It's just difficult to have a broad discussion, such as this one, without some measure of generalizing...
(Oh, and I know Texans aren't scared of anything... maybe that's part of the problem. There's a lot that goes on in this state that should be scaring people.)
Boy, did you give folks a chance to air some opinions about education!!!!
As a retired teacher, a parent, and a grandparent, I see so many sides to education. But I know I can only affect those around me. So as a teacher, I did the best I could to instill a love for learning and a respect for others to the some 400 children I taught in 20 years. As a parent, I always emphasized the importance of the same things: doing your best in school and respecting others. And as a grandparent, I see my own children continuing those values.
I know there are many improvements that can and need to be made in education, but I can only seek the best in those I am around.
I guess I say all this to say:
We have no idea how long (or short of time) we will have our precious children, so I want to give them all that I can to be able to succeed in life. That would be a good academic basis but more than that I want them to have the spiritual tools to live a life led by Christ.
Joe and Laura, I pray that you will have the beautiful opportunity to challenge and support the education of your Sophia and Ira. I know they will have the spiritual guidance because you already have shown that in these last few months.
We continue to pray for Ira and we realize the problems with education or economics are only a small challenge compared to the battle you are handling each day at the hospital. God bless you and give you the tools you need to keep on going.
D. Eller
I would say it depends on the kid. I'm a TA at Rutgers/NJIT in New Jersey. At least in my department, the standards for undergraduate work slip a little bit every year, while the standards for a master's and a doctorate got ratcheted up in 2002 and 2004 (more classes tested during comprehensive exams, proposal requirements....)
The prof I work for threw a student out of class for talking on his cel phone during class (in the honors section, no less). On the other hand, another in the same class averaged a 99 for the semester and she hardly ever came to class. Her chemo took too much out of her.
Kids who do well in school are the ones who know what they want and how to go about getting it.
Anne
Another set of comments from Texas about our educational and social service system coming your way.
Statistics, as y'all know, can be presented in multiple ways and still be "true" technically. The truth is that Texas ranks 48th per capita in MONEY spent for education and social services. All I can say is this level of spending for our most precious commodity--our children-- and for those most vulnerable in our society SHOULD shame us!! Truly it reflects the Scripture "where your treasure is there will your heart be also". We need to let our legislators KNOW where our values are when we go to the Polls!! Having said that (my husband is an educator and my daughter is likewise) simply spending more $$ in and of itself will not necessarily improve the educational system of any state. Dedicated teachers throughout the years have taught in horriffic circumstances and enabled students to be worthwhile & productive members of society while instilling lifelong values! Check out the ghettos of our cities and the little 1-A backwoods schools--it can be done, not easily but it can be and is being done! We, the taxpayers, need to let those authoring the legislation know what we expect and keep voting in new folks until someone GETS the message!
I am a graduate of an east coast high school in the "heyday of education", an east coast junior college on the main line of Philadelphia, and received my degree from what was the ACC in 1975. More recently I completed my graduate degree from UT (hook 'm horns!) Austin (Dec. 2002). In all instances the quality of my education depended upon the quality of the educational institution providing the education AND the student's dedication to their education! When one is underage the parent is a third partner in the learning experience.
So...while one of the earlier authors noted "schools in the south generally suck" -- I must note that amazingly :-) people are graduating from those schools, participating in and completing post graduate education, working, raising families, contributing to society ....could it be the educational situation, while frustrating, needs to be assessed differently and furthermore actually has many assets? Might it be that we can all learn from each other about what is working? I would suggest that prior to making "blanket statements" about a region of the country and their educational circumstances one might want first determine the yardstick for measurement and secondly talk with those of us who live here. We could at least share our personal experiences.
By the way I am a vocational rehabilitation counselor so I am working with persons with disabilities (post secondary education) to assist with employment. And I am also (she may cringe!) Karise's mom. I take full responsibility for this comment and in no way should it reflect upon her. :-)
And...even better than remembering the Alamo...check out the Battle of San Jacinto...that was a "powerful" 18 1/2 minutes of history...amazing what one can do with limited resources....
most of all...keep a sense of humor!
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