I'm currently reading Gilead by Marilynne Robinson. The book is a letter from a dying Reverend to his young son. An exert:
Young people from my own flock have come home with a copy of La Nausee or L'Immoraliste, flummoxed by the possibility of unbelief, when I must have told them a thousand times that unbelief is possible. And they are attracted to it by the very books that tell them what a misery it is. And they want me to defend religion, and they want me to give them "proofs." I just won't do it. It only confirms them in their skepticism. Because nothing true can be said about God from a posture of defense.So I ask of you the question, can anything true be said of God from a posture of defense? If not, apologetics is a wash, right? Much of our evangelism - is there much of it? - is based on apologetics and giving a defense of the Gospel and attempting to give proofs about God and his existence in this world. Could it be that this dying Reverend of the 1950s is on to something?
posted by jch at
7:24 PM
11 Comments:
I wish you could have heard Donald Miller speak in Nashville last night. He talked about just this! He talked about how there are so many books, etc. out there that promote various steps and ideas on ways to bring God's blessings into our lives. But we cannot explain the relationship between God and man. It is a mystery.
He gave this example. He asked one of his married friends why he loved his wife. The guy listed off a number of reasons: beauty, intelligence, faithfulness, etc. Then Miller asked his friend...to quote him...what if "a drop-dead gorgeous woman who walked around in a bikini at her NASA job and prayed five hours a day" came along? Would the married friend give up his wife for this "better" woman? And his friend said no, of course not. But why? Miller asked. His friend said he couldn't explain it...he just loved his wife and that was that.
So it is in our relationship with Jesus. There's no explaining it. It just is.
Your question intrigues me.
My best friend is atheist...came out of "the atheist closet" only a few years ago. ANY time we talk about God, I'm in defense mode. I MUST be.
Sadly, we've stopped talking about God altogether, because I've learned, the hard way, that talking about Him only pushes her beliefs further from the direction I wish for them to go. These days, all I can do is try to live my life with Him at the forefront, pray for wisdom, and that when the day comes that He is able to soften her heart, I'll recognize the cues. A posture of OFFENSE. That's a position I probably ought to start working on.
Looking forward to what others have to say.
Apologetics bother me for that reason. I don't feel that I should have to prove anything about God.
From Rumors of Another World by Phillip Yancey:
Today, I get letters from doubters, skeptical of the church, asking for ironclad proof. I hve to tell them there is none. You need eyes to see and ears to hear, Jesus said to those who doubted him. It takes the mystery of faith, always, to believe, for God has no apparant interest in compelling belief. (If he had, the resurrected Jesus would have appeared to Herod and Pilate, not to his disciples.) p. 41.
Apologetics can be used offensively or defensively - as you move someone toward their faith or retreat from someone's doubt. Ability to use the arguments says nothing about effectiveness, however. If someone doesn't want to see, and you are in defensive posture, they won't believe even when the arguments are strong.
God Bless all of you, Joe.
Donald Miller is something of a recent favorite of mine, too. I've just finished reading "Blue Like Jazz," which is a whole book on the idea you've presented. (incidentally, I will hear him speak at a conference in Atlanta in October).
He speaks very truthfully about mystery and how we seem to have lost it in our modern faith attempts. It is comforting to know there are others out there who are seeking the feeling of mystery and experiencing God in this great, unfathomable way. Sometimes in my work at the church, I feel dry and hard--like a crust has formed around me that I can't break with emotional experience or unreachable God-trusting movements. It's nice to feel as if I can break free and get dirty all over again doing the business of the Kingdom without being wrong.
I Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
Our convictions, belief, faith, and "defense" cannot not and will change the hearts of men. We can be examples and guides, but God, His Gospel, and His Word are the only elements that can convict and change hearts toward faith. Romans 1:16 tells us that.
No fan of "apologetics" but I also would like to say that in rejecting traditional apologetics we should be careful not to affirm that faith is essentially irrational. When the divide between Faith and Reason is affirmed in that way a lot is lost--by people on both sides.
Random comment.
Joe, have you read Jonathan Foer's book Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close? If not I would highly recommend it. Good literature in my opinion.
The struggle of belief and unbelief has been there since the beinning of time (would seem Eve and Adam both had problems BELIEVING GOD!!). And then there was Cain and so on...C. S. Lewis handles this problem first for himself and then in his writings...I do not see him so much "defending God" (apologetics) ad I do stating the obvious (GOD IS) in so many ways....I realize one cannot call a Univeristy Course "stating the obvious" so we call it apologetics...:-) hope I have not offended any "theologians". :-) and I do understand the struggle with belief for some,is huge...so please do not think I am being "light" about this...
Jana, great comment!
Dixie...loved the "God Is." Maybe obvious, but it isn't always in the forefront of our conscience
Joe, equally good post. How you have the mind to read something with a French title right now is beyond me. Every time I hear "apologetics" I think of that knock off Christian cover band Apologetix's (yes take the time to go to the link, it's worth it for the laugh).
I think about Paul at Mar's hill, or Peter standing before the Sanhedrin recounting the whole history of God interacting with the Jews and how that lead to Jesus. I wonder how that fits in with the whole apologetics thing? Perhaps there are two different sides to the coin. Their is proper religious or theological reflection, study, proofing, and discovery that highlights how God has interacted with his creation. And from that kind of apologetic a person grows in their understanding of scripture and strengthens their attributes as a disciple. For that side of the coin I think theological apologetics (is there such a thing) is beneficial.
But that kind of reflection and study often times makes for a poor introduction to God and Jesus. Especially in the society we find ourselves in today. I feel like if Paul were to use apologetics at Mar's Hill in Acts he would have started with disproving each god's existence. Then, sort of by default, make the case of "if they aren't real, then this one is...tada!" Instead he weaves a story, maybe more like a revelation, that exists along side those other gods, but in the end supersedes them to be the one true God.
I really want to be used as a revealer by God to my teens, friends, and family. I believe that revelations have their own unique, powerful, and lasting impact that will far outlast any reasoned "if this then that" kind of argument. The question is how do you live, speak, and teach Christ as a revelation?
Joe,
Been thinking of this subject alot the last two years. Princeton and Oxford are both leaders in discussion the relationship between science, reason, and God. I am sure you are familiar with Van Husstein (sp?) and Polkinghorne. Two good thought provoking items I would reccomend is the movie "What the Bleep Do We Know?" and the book The Closing of The Western Mind: The Rise of Faith and the Fall of Reason by Charles Feeman. I'm not a big fan of apologetics, but perhaps there is another avenue in the dialogue between theology and quantum physics (science) that is promising. The dialogue seems to be one of mutual discovery and obervation rather than "proof."
On a much more personal note, we continue to pray for Ira's health and hope his recent surgery will provide a step forward. May God be present with you both.
-Reed
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